(no subject)

[tisiphone]

This is the wreckage caused by raping children. Big old trigger warning: this links to the suicide note of Bill Zeller, an extremely talented programmer who took his own life a few days ago due to psychological damage caused by sexual abuse as a child. Anyone who tries to excuse the rape or sexual abuse of children under any guise or with any excuse should be forced to read this over and over, at least a dozen times, until maybe they get it. And then they should be kicked in the teeth repeatedly for even thinking to do such a stupid thing.

Comments

*sniffle*

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

That poor man. I just don't have the words. :(

Re: *sniffle*

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

Yeah.

[jabber.livejournal.com]

"Anyone who tries to excuse the rape or sexual abuse of children under any guise or with any excuse" ...

People TRY to? Thank you gods for having spared me from facing this.

Yes, I understand that perpetrators may have themselves been abused, mentally ill, etc, whatever, but There. Is. No. Excuse. Christ!

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

The leadership of the Roman Catholic Church comes to mind.

I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

There's someone there from the "National Suicide Prevention Lifeline" who says "If anyone is reading this who is or has ever contemplated suicide, I hope that you don't take this blogger's opinion as indicative of the greater population. People do care. There are numerous outlets to find help - even anonymously - for any kind of problem. And things will get better."

Things don't always get better, as Bill's letter shows. It's their job to say that, but it's just not true for everyone. I've always been so furious at people who argue that suicide is selfish. What he says about that is so right. "People say suicide is selfish. I think it's selfish to ask people to continue living painful and miserable lives, just so you possibly won't feel sad for a week or two. Suicide may be a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but it's also a permanent solution to a ~23 year-old problem that grows more intense and overwhelming every day."

Yes, I've danced with suicide myself more than once, and always sat down again after a turn around the floor. I hope that I'm never desperate enough again to get to that point, but if I do ever kill myself, I hope that people will be understanding and accepting about it.

I hope that the person who caused his pain realizes that he's a murderer now.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[zinnea.livejournal.com]

If there was a "like" feature here, I'd like this comment so much.

I HATE the "suicide is selfish" bullshit. Certainly I'm sympathetic to the people who are made saddened by someone's suicide but I've found that over and over and over again the people who say "suicide is selfish" are NEVER the people who've had to live with debilitating pain.

I am so sorry that Bill lived with such pain and I am so sorry that he saw no other way out of it but I respect his choice to do what was right for him.

All those years I lived with suicidal feelings I KNEW that there were people who "cared" but "caring" means fuck all when you're the one living with the pain. CONCERN IS NOT A CURE.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

I think the "suicide is selfish" idea is part of the modern reification of life at all costs (for the right people, of course). It is an idea with which I vehemently disagree.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[cinema-babe.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of the whole "suicide is selfish" train of thinking. I feel it's a harsh judgment of someone who was suffering enough in some capacity that not living was a better alternative than living.

However, I am also a survivor of suicide, a very messy suicide, and the person who is no longer suffering does leave a *horrible* burden behind (whether that is their intent or not). Many end up suffering from PSTD from the guilt, shame, pain, ridicule, and if the survivor witnessed the suicide, memories. For a lot of people you don't live, you just plod along trying to survive.

I wish that more who were suicidal understood that they will not be forgotten and that the people they are leaving behind aren't being saved, protected or relieved of a burden but that their suicide is going to toss the survivors into the deep end of the pool in a lead bathing suit.

But I guess that's the crux of it. For most people who reach the point that suicide is a viable option, they are in such a bad place that even if you showed them what life would be like after their death, they still would believe that they are better off dying. So selfish, no, no, no. Unable to be rational, yes but arguably, that contributes to the person committing suicide in the first place.

Blech. It's a crappy situation for everyone.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[jabber.livejournal.com]

I agree with you but I completely think that suicide is selfish. It is the most selfish thing a person can do. The KEY is that "selfish" ISN'T a bad thing!

I've been reduced to suicidal ideation by emotional trauma pretty recently. Events in my life undermined, invalidated and destroyed my sense of self to a point where I could only imagine asserting control over my "self" by terminating it. Frank Herbert said as Muad'dib, In Dune, of The Spice, "he who can destroy a thing controls a thing", and in the place I was, self-destruction was the only means I could imagine of controlling what happened to me.

Yes, suicide is selfish. It is the last desperate attempt by the ego at reclaiming self-control, at asserting self-determination.

The idea that "selfishness is bad" goes hand in hand with "life at all costs (except for those on death row and wars abroad, and quality of life for the poor and illegal)".

"Social justice" without "individual rights" is meaningless. Any social policy that undermines an individual self, directly or indirectly, is suicidal.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[jabber.livejournal.com]

I think/hope that the "things will get better" hinges on the typically unspoken assumption of "IF you get the help you need and are capable of accepting it" ... THEN "things will get better".

Things CAN get better. They didn't get this bad, however bad "this" is, immediately and so it will take time and possibly tremendous effort, but...

It's a semantic cartwheel which from a place of desperation may be impossible to see.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Sometimes "things will get better". Sometimes, though? They really don't, no matter how much time and effort is expended.

Re: I wish I hadn't read the comments...

[jabber.livejournal.com]

The optimist then would say that so long as there is more time there is possibility that they will. Death closes that door.

And no, I'm not saying that anyone in enough pain to want to die should be forced to keep living in pain. Only that enough pain blinds us to the possibility of it waning.

[custardfairy.livejournal.com]

My own experience has led to darkness that I still deal with at least a few times a year in a big way, and smaller ways every day. I disagree with anyone who says that suicide is selfish. Sometimes, frequently, it's a cry for help - but sometimes it's the last solution for a life full of pain.

I'm glad I have the life I do today, but it could have gone more horribly in a hundred ways. What breaks my heart the most is that Mr. Zeller really did not feel like he could trust anyone based on his own experiences being betrayed by those he did trust. I am so angry about that.

I too think the world will be a better place when my family is no longer part of it. And I too stopped believing in God when I refused to put any kind of merit in a deity that would pardon my father for everything he did to me as a child. No. Just no.

[yix.livejournal.com]

The other question is, what the hell is wrong with being selfish in the face of that much pain?